When gay people say that this is a civil rights issue, we are referring to matters like the fact that we cannot make medical decisions for our partners in an emergency. Instead, the hospitals are usually forced by state laws to go to the families who may be estranged from us for decades, who are often hostile to us, and totally ignore our wishes for the treatment of our partners. If that hostile family wishes to exclude us from the hospital room, they may legally do so in nearly all cases. It is even not uncommon for hostile families to make decisions based on their hostility — with results actually intended to be inimical to the interests of the patient! One couple I know uses the following line in the “sig” lines on their email: “…partners and lovers for 40 years, yet still strangers before the law.” Is this fair?
If our partners are arrested, we can be compelled to testify against them or provide evidence against them, which legally married couples are not forced to do. Is this fair?

In most cases, even carefully drafted wills and durable powers of attorney have proven to not be enough if a family wishes to challenge a will, overturn a custody decision, or exclude us from a funeral or deny us the right to visit a partner’s grave. As survivors, they can even sieze a real estate property that we may have been buying together for years, quickly sell it at a huge loss and stick us with the remaining debt on a property we no longer own. When these are presented to a homophobic probate judge, he will usually find some pretext to overturn them. Is this fair?

These aren’t just theoretical issues, either; they happen with surprising frequency. Almost any older gay couple can tell you horror stories of friends who have been victimized in such ways.

These are all civil rights issues that have nothing whatever to do with the ecclesiastical origins of marriage; they are matters that have become enshrined in state laws over the years in many ways that exclude us from the rights that legally married couples enjoy and consider their constitutional right. This is why we say it is very much a civil rights issue; it has nothing to do with who performs the ceremony or whether an announcement is accepted for publication in the local paper. It is not a matter of “special rights” to ask for the same rights that other couples enjoy by law, even by constitutional mandate.”
—Scott Bidstrup

Do you read because all the reasons have been repeated again and again in this blog? Just put your finger on the key and scroll, scroll, scroll.

I know the government has you pretty brainwashed but guess what — it is always a “justifiable act” to be discriminating. In fact thinking doesn’t have to be justified at all. When you discriminate you: select from others; observe the difference between; show partiality or prejudice and you MAKE A JUDGMENT OR REACH A VERDICT.

You are still allowed to think and make a judgment even if the word “discriminate” has come, to some, to mean “prejudice against.” That’s the “political” meaning and if you are afraid to think and draw a verdict because you might discriminate against someone you are in terrible trouble. You “discriminate” every day Chris — but don’t be afraid. Obama hasn’t invented a “thought Czar” yet.

As for the word “bigot,” it means a person who holds blindly and intolerably to a creed or opinion. I am neither blind nor intolerant. Name-callers like you use your names to shut up the opposition because it puts the other person in the position of having to defend himself personally. This argument isn’t personal Chris. For all I know you’re a weak-minded pervert but I haven’t suggested that, have I? And even if I did suggest it how would you prove me wrong?

I have reached my “opinion” through thoughtful soul-searching, study and life experience and my opnion is that gays should get “civil unions” and leave the word “marriage” for heterosexuals where it has been from the beginning of time.

What, then, are your *reasons* for discriminating against same-sex couples, in terms of either marriage or parenting? You haven’t advanced any. Gay people are no less competent, loving, or socially responsible. Why on earth should the law treat them differently?

If you had a credible answer for that, you might find that people would stop accusing you of being a bigot.

I have a confession to make. I am a discriminator and you will probably want to report me to the PC police, Obama or a gay rights group. Yesterday I chose three rosy red apples over three shrunken and dry oranges at the grocery store. I discriminate every day of my life. I discriminated against those oranges and I admit it.

Stealing respect and dignity is a poor argument for gay marriage. Get another one.

But the answer is YES. That is EXACTLY what you are doing.

When you write, “I just think it is unfair and frankly sick to go around placing kids into [same-sex] homes” (and BTW, same-sex adoption is perfectly legal in many places where equal marriage isn’t yet), among various other slurs found in the comments thread here, that DOES deny people the dignity and respect they deserve as human beings and as citizens. It draws conclusions about them based on a stereotype derived from their status as members of a particular group, rather than treating them as individuals.

There are genuine concerns about public safety underlying, say, driving and drinking ages. However, I seriously doubt there are any “principles” you can name that justify laws against equal marriage. It’s bigotry, pure and simple.

Today men and women are dying on the streets of Tehran and we are discussing gay rights. You make me feel like a pawn of the gay agenda and I’m not comfortable with that. We are at an impasse.

1) You say you are “discriminated against” but you will always be discriminated against, even if you are among the rich and famous. Nature itself discriminates against you and denies you children except by adoption or artificial means. Your union is not blessed by nature or most of society but you will push for it in order to mimic what you will never be — another gender.
You are part of a small and stagnant minority unless you start recruiting which some fear you already do. Your union is incomplete and deficient and defies what many consider the true purpose of marriage is – to create families, build stability and carry on the race. You seek to change the institution of marriage which has existed throughout the ages to benefit society and children. Most religions despise your practices and warn against them. Yes, you are discriminated against on a huge scale.

2) You say “your rights” are denied but you have the same rights as anyone else. You may live, love and have sex together. Laws do not exist to enable you to marry so you want to invent “special laws” for “special people” and many states have granted them.

3) You say you “don’t see how it would hurt” to allow same sex couples to marry. First it changes the commonly accepted definition of marriage which some consider inviolate. It lends the rubber stamp of normalcy and approval to the few over the many. It is abhorrent to most religions. It does not promote the best interests of society and family. It complicates and confuses role models. It can be a gateway to unhealthy or dangerous sexual practices when indiscriminate bisexuals cross over. It opens the door for those who want the opportunity to prey on children. It legitimizes aberrant sexual behavior. Some will use it for fraudulent purposes to gain insurance or money.

On a more personal note, I am glad your parents love and support you and the only assumption I made was that your parents didn’t ask for a homosexual child. Was I incorrect?

The child that was sexually molested was abused, over time, by an avowed “lesbian,” not just by a female babysitter. With regard to the “whipping boy” comment, when my friend Pam first came out she described an incident where she purposely made-out with her girlfriend, in the closed confines of a tour boat, just to irritate the old and obviously offended couple sitting in back of her. Maybe that wasn’t “flaunting.” Maybe that was just being nasty. Coming out seemed to give Pam a new set of rules where human behavior was concerned.

Thank you for explaining your mushy comparison of the Puerto Rican Parade with the Gay Rights Parade. Now I understand your comparison of gender, race, and homosexuality.

And I’m pretty sure my heterosexual parents only ever said, “I hope she grows up to be happy.” I don’t think that they would love me any differently either way. They have completely supported my sexuality and have welcomed my girlfriend into their family. I know that sharing this has no effect on you since you’ve clearly made up your mind and no amount of logical reasoning could ever convince you otherwise. I just thought I’d share that your assumptions about my family were incorrect, and I would wager that other assumptions of yours about gays have likewise been off point.

Now, what does a little girl being molested by a female babysitter have to do with anything? I could also talk about the two of my close friends that have been raped (by men) or my friend that was sexually molested by her uncle… There are bad people everywhere. I’m unsure of the point you are trying to make. But if you’re so convinced that you have nothing against lesbians, then why are you so adamantly promoting DOMA, a piece of legislation that is a partial cause of the difficulties you mentioned.

Oh and I almost forgot. Comparing sexual preference and ethnicity does make sense seeing as they are both pieces of your identity that you cannot change. You are born Caucasian, African American, Hispanic, etc. the same way you are born gay or straight or bisexual. The point I was making was, why is it considered perfectly fine to deny rights to gays but discrimination based on race or gender is unacceptable? Should they not be equally frowned upon?

Normally, no pun intended, I would argue point by point for a civil debate but you offended me by using the word “hatred” in your first long paragraph where you also tried to compare The Puerto Rican Day Parade with a Gay Pride Parade and this bewildered me.

“Hate and hatred” are the buzz words currently used by the Hispanic lobby to label anyone who disagrees with them. As for comparing ethnicity with sexual preference, this makes no sense at all.

I wish you a long and happy homosexual life. I know the man who lent his sperm and the woman who contributed her egg to create you did not say, “Gee, I hope she grows up to be a lesbian.” No sane person would wish the inherent problems of being gay on their child.

I stand by everything I’ve said in my posts and I have nothing against lesbians except this: A friend’s child (a girl) was sexually molested by her lesbian babysitter in the bathtub. This affected the molested child deeply and she grew up to be very cautious about her own children and she blamed her mother.

I share this only because I was dumb enough not to realize it could happen and I know your moral standards do not necessarily match the babysitter’s.